If you're a whiny snowflake that can't handle the truth, is offended by the word fuck and about 37 uses of it in different forms gets ass hurt. When you hear someone speak the absolute, real and raw truth, you should leave Like right now. This is Shut Up and Choose, the podcast where we cut through the shit and get real about weight loss, life and everything in between. We get into the nitty gritty of making small, smart choices that add up to big results. From what's on your plate to how you approach life's challenges. We'll explore how the simple act of choosing differently can transform your health, your mindset and your entire freaking life. So if you're ready to cut through the bullshit and start making some real changes, then buckle up and shut up, because we're about to choose our way to a healthier, happier life. This is Shut Up and Choose. Let's do this Now. Your host, jonathan Ressler.
Jonathan:Hey, welcome back to my podcast. In case you don't know, I'm Jonathan Ressler, the regular guy who lost 130 pounds while eating whatever I wanted to no diets, no shots, no surgery, nothing. Just I just shut up and chose. So I'm really excited about today's episode because I have my first interview coming up. This is so exciting for me. I have with me today someone who actually knows why the shit that I did works. I mean, I certainly didn't know. She's already laughing in the background. So just a quick PSA. We both happen to be in Florida. I'm on the East Coast, she's on the West Coast and if you're thinking about moving here, don't. It sucks, so just stay wherever you are.
Jonathan:So today I'm happy to introduce Dr Debbie Rosen. She's a behavioral psychologist, a health coach and the owner of Travidity Labs and Wellness Solutions. Let me say that again the owner of Travidity Labs and Wellness Solutions. I didn't say that right the first time. She ready for this. She has a PhD in performance psychology, is a certified nutrition and a published author on dietary behaviors, obesity, health and performance. She's passionate about helping people navigate the complex and confusing information about losing weight. We all know that. We all know about that, and she's excited about helping people be healthy and make long-term changes that are easy to maintain. Also, just in case you're wondering, debbie was a nationally ranked fitness competitor and a competitive bodybuilder for more than 30 years. So let me introduce Dr Debbie Rosen. You know, for me, for my culture, she's a doctor. I'm so glad she's a doctor. Hey, debbie, thanks for coming on today. I really appreciate it.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:It is a pleasure to be here with you today, Jonathan.
Jonathan:So I met Debbie through an old, old friend of mine that I played college football with, and Debbie happens to be his wife, and I only met her in, I guess, in January of this year. But we've been doing a lot, or maybe it was December, when was it?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:When was it, Debbie? I think it was a little bit longer. It was actually in Boca last, like September, October, I think.
Jonathan:Yeah, like I said last September, you know I'm time challenged so I don't really know. You know I can't I can't be held accountable for anything having to do with time. But I met Debbie and she's got some incredible. She runs a company called Truvidity which I'll let her tell you more about in a minute. But I met Debbie and just kind of on a fluke, I was telling her about my weight loss journey because she had never seen me before. And there I was, probably at that time maybe 80 pounds lighter, and I told her what I was doing and she's like oh yeah, that works scientifically. Like I said, I wasn't on a diet, I didn't do anything, I just was making small, smart choices. So now that I have a doctor on my show, I'm so excited about this. So, debbie, I did this without knowing the science and I know that you actually know there's some science behind this shit. So can you explain to people?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:why it actually worked. Yeah, there actually is. And I do remember when we first met and you were telling me what you were doing, I was nodding my head and I think you felt very genius like at the time, like you had kind of come up with some brilliant new way of doing something. And I'm nodding my head, I'm going yeah, research that I did for my PhD dissertation and they've been proven time and time again in various different groups of people that show why this works. So the first one is called cognitive dietary restraint and if anybody wants to look this up, there's actually a fascinating little study that they did way back when, when they gave people milkshakes to drink when they were hungry or not, and then they gave drunk people milkshakes to drink when they were hungry or not, and then they gave drunk people milkshakes to drink when they were hungry or not. It's fascinating stuff.
Jonathan:I'm volunteering for that yeah.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:And they wanted to see. You know, would people you know eat more if you told them that they couldn't have something at all, versus if they were allowed to have anything that they want whenever they wanted to, and what they found? It's actually developed something called prepare yourself for this, but the what the hell effect. It's a very scientific term and what it means is, if you tell yourself you can't have something, something's off the table, like you say, I'm never having carbs again, I don't eat carbs. No carbs, no bread, no pasta, no potatoes, I don't do carbs, right.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:And then somebody comes along with the most amazing smelling fresh baked bread and you go Ooh, nope, I don't do carbs, I don't do bread, I don't eat any of that stuff. And then you go well, maybe just a little bit. As soon as you have that little bit, you go oh, what the hell. You know what? Give me the bread. I'll just start this over tomorrow. And people who follow what's called strict dietary restraint, strict cognitive restraint, they tend to be more obese because they have convinced themselves they can't have something. That when they then dab their toe in it just a little tiny bit, they get the oh, what the hell, I might as well. Eat the whole damn thing and start over again tomorrow.
Jonathan:I know, Debbie, I'm probably the most guilty of that. Like I said, at one point I was paleo and then I became somewhat paleo and that didn't end well.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, and a lot of people do this with keto or with South Beach or Mediterranean, or fill in the blank with whatever fad diet is coming around the bend today is we go, oh, I'm just not going to eat any of that type of food, or I'm only going to eat those kinds of foods, and the minute that you have to deviate from it, you go, oh, what the hell. And so that's the first theory. It's been proven time and time again. And then the second one is mindful eating. So mindful eating is a theory that has been tested and true. So a lot of people hear mindfulness and they think of, like you know Eastern, you know OM and yoga and posing and meditation. But mindful eating literally just means paying attention to what the hell you're putting into your mouth.
Jonathan:And I like, I like that idea.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah. And so when you practice mindful eating, it's really just trying to kind of be present instead of you know eating. While you're driving and watching the, your, your cell phone and talking to the person next to you, you kind of just stop everything else and pay attention and be somewhat intentional about what the hell you're putting in your mouth. And so, again, research shows that people who actually pay attention to what they put in their mouth tend to be less obese, because you're just making more intentional choices and mindful about what you do. And then the third thing is what I actually do teach a lot of people, which is there's three reasons why you eat food, and so you actually talk about this in your book a lot.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You probably don't realize that you do, but you choose foods for a variety of different reasons. Sometimes you choose foods because it's healthy. Sometimes you choose foods because it actually contributes to. Sometimes you choose foods because it actually contributes to weight loss or weight management if you've already achieved your weight goal. And then sometimes you choose foods because of what I call belief. It's because I like it, it's convenient, it's available, it's whatever's in my kitchen, it's because it's fill in the blank with cultural things vegan, vegetarian, kosher, whatever it may be. And you know, sometimes we choose foods in that circle because, quite frankly, it feeds our soul. I want it. You know, eggplant Parmesan maybe is not always the healthiest and definitely doesn't contribute to weight loss, but sometimes you eat it because it feeds your soul. And the ideal thing that research will show you is that if you just make conscious choices and make those intentional reasons of why you're choosing the food, you tend to be able to manage your weight better. So it's been proven by science.
Jonathan:Well see, I told you so. See, you guys didn't know that I was that smart, did you?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I knew all that before I went into this you were a genius before you even knew it.
Jonathan:Right, I read all those studies, yeah, of course. But I guess the question or the next question I have for you, debbie, is like for me on my journey, I never felt bad when I ate one of those foods that you said that feed your soul, like I never felt guilty if I ate a piece of cake because I knew I could make my next choice a smarter one. And I mean, is that kind of what, that whole kind of the food that feeds your soul? Is that what that's all about?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:It's exactly what it is, and if you think about it now, this is the problem that we have with society today is that we consider the concept of balance being like all right, so I had a salad for lunch, so I can have a big fat chicken, parmesan, you can't. It's that one to one ratio of balance, or? Oh, I worked out today so I can have a big fat dinner tonight with fried chicken and pizza. You know the ratio realistically. So you're right.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yes, when you keep things in balance, where you kind of have some good stuff and then you can kind of make up for the bad stuff, it works great. The problem is that today we kind of think of it as being a one to one ratio, and the reality is that ratio needs to be more like a six or seven to one. Six or seven good, mindful, what we might call clean choices, either because they are healthy or contribute to weight loss, because they're low calorie, and then you know three of those times you can kind of make it where it feeds your soul and I'm just enjoying the moment, but the key is to never feel guilty about it. It's intentional. As long as you intended to feed your soul, then it's a good choice.
Jonathan:Yeah, like what she said. But seriously I never really thought about like, okay, I know, and I believe people know, you just know what's good and what's not good and I don't believe in those terms good food and bad food. I think all food is good food because and now I'll be able to say, because some food feeds your soul, so you just gave me some more ammo. But I think, you know, I think, as the whole calorie, like you said, you know I ate a low-carb, this or a low-calorie that I never really thought about eating low-calorie because I believe that it's kind of wired into our DNA. You know, eating fried chicken is not as healthy as eating grilled chicken.
Jonathan:I know you were a competitive bodybuilder so you probably did count calories. But do you think, because I never counted calories, I never gave a shit. But do you think counting calories like people cause I never counted calories, I never gave a shit but do you think like counting calories? Obviously the science is, you know, burn more calories than you take in but do you think like counting calories is a good technique?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Well, listen, I'm going to actually throw it back to you with a similar analogy. John, you know. So if you're driving down the car, driving down the road, and you know intuitively, you probably know whether you're doing 150 miles an hour or 50, right, I mean, nobody needs to look down at their speedometer and know whether they're doing 50 or 150. If you're driving up by 75 and you're going 150 miles an hour, you know you're speeding, okay, so you know. Now, if you're trying to figure out whether you're doing 70 or 80, maybe looking down at that speedometer is necessary. So you know.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:My point is, if you've got people that are out there that are like, listen, I got to lose 50 or 60 pounds, ok, do they need to count calories?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:No, ok, but you can't get on the highway and just start driving and be speeding along and assume that you're not going to get a ticket. You know what you have to do is gauge yourself and you kind of know what driving 50 or 60 miles an hour feels like. So get to that point. If you don't know what driving or 50, 60 miles an hour looks like or feels like, maybe you do need to track some calories or check that speedometer a couple of times and go ah, that's what 50 miles an hour feels like I've been driving 150 like an asshole. So you know what? Check that speedometer every so often, get a gauge for what it feels like to be driving that speed or eating the amount of calories that you need to, and then kind of check yourself. But to your point, you kind of know that eating grilled chicken more often than eating fried chicken is going to get you your results.
Jonathan:You just got to make those choices Right and I want to go going to get you your results. You just got to make those choices Right, and and I I want to go back to something you said before because I think it's really important. Like I always said, if I wanted to eat a dozen jelly donuts, I'd fucking eat them, you know, and and I'd make my next decision a better one. But if I could, you know, if I could make like 70% of my choices good ones and 30% maybe not so good ones, because I don't think you can make a bad one because, like you said, you armed me with this. Now I'm gonna fucking use it all the time because I was feeding my soul in 30 of those decisions. But if I can make 70 good, then you know I again at 411 pounds.
Jonathan:I'm not saying if you need to lose seven pounds, no, you know. Then then yeah, you need to count calories. But I mean, you think 70 that's a good ratio? Yeah, so here's, I'm going to actually give it to you.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Here's. Here's the scientist in me coming up with numbers. So if you think about it, if you, the average person, eats three or four times a day right, you have three meals and some sort of snack. That's kind of the common eating pattern means that there's about 25 meals in a week, which means there's about a hundred meals in a month, which isn't that nice that the math just works out that way.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So if you think about it, if you can make about 70 to 80% of your decisions aligned with living better, functioning better, being able to get up and out of a chair without somebody helping you in another 30 years from now not needing surgery and cardiac catheterizations and all those things 70 to 80% of those decisions or 70 to 80 meals being aligned with your health and performance and longevity and, you know, not dying of a heart attack, and 20 to 30% of them being kind of to feed your soul and have a little fun with friends and things like that, that's a huge win yeah, so and I, I love that because that's that's, that's exactly what I did.
Jonathan:I, I mean without knowing, without thinking like, okay, I'm gonna do this. You know, 70 percent ratio. I just said if I can make more of my decisions good decisions, you know, and smart choices, that then I'm probably gonna win. And so, just so everybody knows debbie also, you know, does and smart choices, then I'm probably going to win. And so, just so everybody knows, debbie also, you know, does a lot of coaching for people who need to lose weight. She was not my coach because I really did. I was already on my journey when I met her. But I mean, debbie, like, what are some of the things you know, what are some of the triggers that you find with people that really make them kind of, you know, go off the off the reservation, for lack of a better term.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah. So I'm going to talk about kind of the to your point about what causes people to crash and burn, and then I'll also talk about the things that keep people aligned.
Jonathan:Okay, so. So crash and burn is definitely where I was.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, so, yeah, there's. There's a few things. Number one one of the emotions associated with being a human being is a unique factor of humans and we tend to eat out of emotional triggers. Okay, so if that's the case, most people will tend to make poor decisions around food as it's related to emotions. That's where mindful eating comes in, and so taking a moment to stop and decide what am I eating, why am I eating it? And if the decision in that moment is, oh no, I am definitely eating this chicken, parmesan sandwich and French fries and a side of pasta and a piece of cheesecake because I am feeding my soul right now because of my breakup, have at it, enjoy it. If it's an intentional decision to make it and you're acknowledging it for the emotions and you believe it's going to just help you feel better in that moment, I guarantee you, after the third time you do that, in a two or three day period, you're going to recognize that it's probably not the right coping skill, but most people do it without even thinking about it.
Jonathan:Absolutely. And I, you know, I always say to people look, if you want to figure this thing out, you have to be present when you eat, and that's really fucking hard, you know like we're used to just eating mindlessly not mindfully, like I mean.
Jonathan:For me, like I could be, you know, before I was doing this, I would be eating and I'd have the tv on and I'd be looking at my phone checking out some instagram shit, and you know, uh, you know there might be a distraction in another room Like I. Like eating was just kind of a almost a by-product. And that kind of mindful eating, that really thinking about like hey, even even down to the, you know, to the point where I was like do I really need to have this next bite or am I full? Because you know, when you're, when your mind's going in 45 different directions, like if you're upset over a breakup or whatever the emotion is, you're not really thinking. You're thinking about that other thing, whatever it may be, or those other things, and you just kind of eat Again.
Jonathan:For me, I was definitely an emotional eater. So that was just one. By the way, for those of you, because I'm not going to edit this shit out, that was my son, bo, calling me on FaceTime, so here's the second thing that causes people to crash and burn.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Okay, and this is actually a really fascinating one. It's going to be um the availability of crap in your face 247. Okay. So there's some really fun studies out there. If you look up, there's an author out there, brian Wansink or Dr Wansink. He wrote a couple of different books and there's some real fun studies in there that show that if you take people and you pump in the scent, do you ever notice? When you walk through an airport it smells like Cinnabon or Auntie Anne's pretzels, that buttery scent that you smell.
Jonathan:Definitely.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Okay. So when you bombard people's senses whether it's the sight and the visual effect of delicious food in front of you or the smell of cinnamon and butter and all that good stuff, whatever like that it heightens your need and it actually triggers some sensors and neurotransmitters in your brain that tell you I want it right now. So you know, eliminating those triggers is really critical. So you know what? Fill your fridge and your pantry with good, clean, healthy stuff at the forefront and hide the cookies and shit Better yet, don't even have it in the house. Make yourself get in the car. By the way, that's going to just. Can I just divert for just a second?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Sure, the availability of all of this absolute crap 24 seven on DoorDash and Uber Eats and everything else, while we sit in our kitchen or in our living room with our feet up at two o'clock in the morning and we can have all of this food delivered to us 24 seven is just not natural. And it's and it is what is actually feeding no pun intended the epidemic of obesity in the United States. We are supposed to, at the core of our element of biology, go out and find food. We're supposed to forage, we're supposed to hunt and kill and capture and cook. You know what we do. We push a damn button on our phone and fried chicken and pizza is at our doorstep at three o'clock in the morning.
Jonathan:Well, you know, it's funny because I talk about that in my book and I say I like found the upside of the pandemic, which was I could get food from any restaurant and all I'd have to do is call and they'd bring it out to my fat ass in the parking lot. Yeah, exactly.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:And so the. So you know, take that and just mimic that in your home. You've got to be sure that your house isn't just DoorDash or Uber Eats behind a doorway. So make sure that you have your pantry and your refrigerator filled with really good, clean stuff for the most part, and have those cookies and those cakes tucked away for like the rainy day yeah, that definitely makes makes a lot of sense.
Jonathan:I mean, obviously, if it's not there, it's a hell of a lot harder to eat it. And you know, uh yeah, I, I was never a big delivery guy I would. I, I would go out, find some drive-thru and eat like whatever shit I could find, like chicken mcnuggets late at night, or, believe me, I, I had a whole repertoire of the bad things that I like to eat. But so I mean, that's this just makes so much sense to me. And when you talk about like different things to eat, when I met you that first time you introduced me to like this incredible breakfast that I because I really I was eating like instant oatmeal. I was eating like three packages, you know, and eating the oatmeal it was a pain, truthfully, even though I was just making it in the microwave, it was a pain in the ass. I had to wait for it to cool down. You introduced me to this great recipe, very complicated, for overnight oats. It's whole oats and water and you put it in the refrigerator. I mean, this shit takes time to make.
Jonathan:I have to say, once I started eating that in the morning it was, I think when I met you I was kind of at a plateau at like 80 some odd pounds and I started to eat that and and that really like kind of kickstarted my you know or or jumpstarted my journey again because it, it, it really was A, it was filling. And then you, I did talk about this Debbie's company, travinity, makes this incredible protein shake that I love that I was drinking in the morning, then I ran out and I'm such a lazy fuck I didn't order anymore, but that's a story for another day. But what other like you told me, eat protein in the morning because that really gets you kind of going. So, like what do you recommend? What should people eat in the morning to get their day going, so they feel full? I mean, eating those oats was magical to me, yeah.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, all right. So there's a couple of principles here that I think is important for us to understand, and then you're kind of filling in the blanks of what the foods are is important. So, again, one of the other things that I really try to do is to teach people some of the underlying. You know theories or principles. You understand why you do things, because then when I tell you so, you should have protein here's some examples I'm not just telling you what to eat because that's not sustainable, right, if you understand the why you're choosing certain foods, now you're empowered with the information. So let me tell you the principle behind it. So, number one when you wait, Debbie, all this, she's the doctor.
Jonathan:All this science is making me very excited, I feel so smart, making me very excited.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I feel so smart. Listen, you know, when you talk about the health and wellness industry, it's full of a bunch of blood sucking, money hungry thieves who just want to, you know, keep you fat so that they keep on making money. And, as my husband, jeff, always reminds me, I have a self-limiting business model to teach people everything I know, so they don't need me and I stop making money. But that's a whole nother story, so let me teach you everything that I know. So when you wake up in the morning and your body hasn't had food for most of us for about 12 to 14 hours depending on when your last meal was and kind of how long you sleep, for let's just say it's 12 to 12 hours when you wake up in the morning, your body is starving. It's literally in a fasted state of starvation and it's like a sponge. Okay, there's a principle here that people need to understand is that we do not store protein in our body. We can't. Our body cannot store proteins. It can store fats and carbs.
Jonathan:It cannot store protein.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I'm proof of that. Yeah Well, it's a whole nother conversation. We're going to do that in another podcast. So we cannot store proteins. Protein what does protein do for us?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Protein is what our body builds all of its tissues out of. So muscle tissue, hair, skin, nails, joint tissue all of the tissues in our bodies are built from protein. So if we are starving our body for 12 hours and it cannot store any protein at all, the very first thing that you want to put into your body in the morning is protein, so that you immediately tell it don't go and break down protein for energy, because you don't have any. I'm going to give you some, okay. So that's the first thing. The second thing is, when you break down protein in your body, if you don't fuel it with some first thing in the morning, that protein that it finds is in the form of your muscle tissue.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Now, muscle tissue, without going into all the biochemistry behind it, actually is like the car engine that burns up the gasoline, and so muscle tissue burns calories even when you're sleeping.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So the very last thing that you want to do when you're trying to lose weight and keep a very strong metabolism to keep losing weight, is to get rid of the engine in the car.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You want to create a bigger engine that guzzles more gas, so you want to make sure that you don't encourage your body to break down the muscle protein. You want to create a bigger engine that guzzles more gas, so you want to make sure that you don't encourage your body to break down the muscle protein. You want to encourage it to keep the muscle protein. So you put protein into it, so it doesn't have to break down its own for the protein, since it doesn't store it. Okay, and then the third thing is that with protein, it keeps you full for longer, so it actually takes a lot of time to digest. Actually, there's another thing I'm going to talk about the thermic effect of food. So protein also is a slow digesting macromolecule, so it actually will keep you feeling fuller longer, so that you don't eat something and 20 minutes later feeling ravenous again, like when you have pancakes or waffles for breakfast.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Okay, and then the third thing, third thing, the fourth thing, the last thing we'll call it is the thermic effect of food. When you eat 100 calories of protein, it actually takes your body about 25 calories to break that protein down, digest it and metabolize it, which leaves you only with about 75 calories left to either use or store. So you actually use up 25% of the calories that you put in to actually break it down and make it useful to your body. And so, if you think about that, just multiply that times the thousands of calories that you eat on a daily basis and a weekly basis, you actually end up with 25% less calories to be able to be stored as fat.
Jonathan:See, now that's a motherfucking science right there. Yes, now that's a motherfucking science right there. Because, like so if you eat protein in the morning, you're going to burn more fat, is the idiot's version right?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:That is exactly right Now. The oatmeal that I had you eating in a similar way. Oatmeal is carbohydrate, so people go wait a minute. Oatmeal doesn't have any protein in it. What is she talking about?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Ok, so oatmeal is a low glycemic carbohydrate. It is a high fiber. It is a very complex molecule that your body has to work very, very hard to break down. It takes a long time to digest it, which again doesn't spike that blood sugar and then make your ravenous 20 minutes later. It's going to hold off your hunger for a longer period of time and it's going to take a little bit more time and energy to break down. So it's a great choice for first thing in the morning as well. The worst thing you can do as soon as you wake up in the morning, when the dawn effect is in place and again that's a topic for a future podcast but it's when your body is encouraging it to store body fat for later on, when you starve, it is to have things that are super high starchy carbs Pancakes, waffles, muffins, toaster strudels, pop tarts all the things that we call breakfast to children.
Jonathan:It's shocking because all those, all those things that you just mentioned, are things that I definitely would eat. Oh, you know, I'm just going to have like one of these low carb muffins. Well, you know what? I better have two to be safe, cause I be hungry. I definitely big fan of pop tarts. You know, I ate all that kind of stuff and I have to say, to this day, I still make the overnight oats. I mean, it takes me like literally a minute the night before and I cut up some fruit and I put it, you know, put it in there and then put the water in, mix it all up and I got to tell you, aside from being good for you because I'm sure that's definitely a benefit it tastes great. I mean, I don't particularly like milk, so I don't put milk in, but I guess a lot of people put milk in it, right?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, you can make it with an unsweetened almond milk. You could use like a. If you do cow's milk or animal milk, you can do that. Water, any kind of liquid is going to do. And that's just again. When we talk about why you choose foods, that's going to be in that belief circle. You know, maybe it's a cultural thing or it's how you were raised. You can choose that, as long as it's some sort of liquid. Now, the other thing too is you don't cook the oats. We didn't talk about that too much.
Jonathan:So when you cook it and you actually do it cold overnight- yeah, and I got to tell you it tastes it truthfully, it it honestly tastes better.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You know, the better texture.
Jonathan:And it took me. It was you know. You said I met you in September. I probably didn't do it for like three months Cause I was like no, that can't be right. And then I tested it once.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I was like holy shit, this is good, this is really good, and I think what you're touching on too, jonathan, is that you know a lot of people listen it does come down to kind of calories and calories out. I mean, that's the basics of it, but it's so much more complex when you start and it's thermic effective food and non-exercise activity, thermogenesis, and that's when people go what, and so I don't blame people for being confused or frustrated or just trying whatever fad diet they can get their hands on. It's why I really appreciate what you put in your book. It's like you know what. Arm yourself with some basic information and then just make better choices. And if you don't know what the term better choices means for you, first of all use common sense, right? I mean, we all know that we shouldn't eat cake for breakfast, even though the food industry tells us to you know, then just start making better choices more and more often, and it leads to success.
Jonathan:Yeah, I mean, and that it is true. I mean, like I, I didn't make major change. Well, no, I take that back. I did make major changes but I did it gradually and you know, I definitely, like I said, I really I'm not, I'm not joking. I would get like sometimes for breakfast two blueberry muffins from Dunkin Donuts and think, well, that's got to be better than eating a donut. But really I think at the, you know, at the end of the day it's all the same shit.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:But really I think at the end of the day, it's all the same shit. Let me tell you what it is. It's all just cake with a different proportion of the ingredients.
Jonathan:Right.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:It's eggs, flour, sugar, it's all the same thing.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah no-transcript grams of whey isolate protein. So we talk about different kinds of proteins. There's whey, there's casein, there's collagen, there's egg protein, there's plant proteins, and so one of the things that people should know is that whey isolate is it comes from dairy. So dairy has four major ingredients it has milk sugar, it has milk fat and then it has two different kinds of milk proteins and whey is one of those. It is the fastest digesting, most bioavailable protein. It means your body soaks it up like a sponge, super fast and super easy.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So remember I told you when you put protein into your body, since it can't store it, you want it to go to those muscle tissues really, really quickly so that you're not going to burn that muscle that's going to otherwise burn calories. So it's got 25 grams of whey isolate protein. Isolate it out, meaning it has no milk sugar, no milk fat and no casein. It has some simple stevia and natural flavor. The chocolate flavor has little chunks of cocoa powder in it, and I put probiotics and digestive enzymes right into it as well, because probiotics are really important for gut health, for immune health, for digestive support. It helps prevent that protein belly that some proteins give you, and then the digestive enzymes help break everything down as well. So most people who say, oh, I can't drink protein because it gives me a really discomfort in my stomach and stuff. This protein powder doesn't do that and it tastes great as no fillers, no other than just a simple stabilizer. That's all that's in it.
Jonathan:Well, that's cool, so so, okay. So this podcast sponsored by Travidity Labs, yeah, but tell them how. Tell. I mean you know, look, the shit works. I mean you know I'm still a fat fuck, but I used to be a much, much fatter fuck and it helped me for sure. So tell people how they can get it.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, if you go to wwwtruviditylabscom and you just search on it, it's True Build Protein Powder and actually if they use the promo code DRDEB, deb D, r, d E B, they'll get a special discount from me.
Jonathan:Awesome. So that's just so in case you know you guys can't figure it out. It's T R U V I DI T Y I D Y.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Truvidity. Yeah, by the way, just you know, for people to know truvidity people who are avid readers, avid swimmers, avid golfers it means that they have a true enthusiasm for something that they love and they're passionate about. And so avidity is that verb of having that, is it an adverb, is it a verb? I don't know. I know science, not English. And so truvidity is to have that passion and enthusiasm and eagerness about what I think truly matters most, which is health.
Jonathan:So enthusiasm and eagerness about what I think truly matters most, which is health. So that's where it comes from Truvidity. See, you can learn shit on this podcast. I mean I'm not just teaching you about weight loss, I mean you're learning about this shit. You know what? I'm getting smarter just doing this. I want to go back to something that you said, because it's really important to me and you're in it and I you know. You said that people in the diet industry and the wellness industry are a bunch of scumbags that just want to suck up your money and so.
Jonathan:So I'm interested in hearing like I I I have recently, you know, I've been posting a lot on instagram and on social media and I get a lot. I get a lot of comments like, dude, you're just losing water weight and I'm like a fucking hundred. I mean, I know your body's lot on Instagram and on social media and I get a lot. I get a lot of comments like, dude, you're just losing water weight and I'm like a fucking hundred. I mean, I know your body's made up a lot of water, but I didn't lose 130 pounds of water weight. You know, I mean, if I did that, I just would have put a tap in my belly and let it go, you know.
Jonathan:But like what do you think of? Like all these guys out there and I know you're formerly a bodybuilder or a competitive, you know, you know a competitor in that world but you know all these guys that are out there that really have never lost more than, like that, seven or 10 pounds they needed to lose to get better definition. You know, I mean I just think they're full of shit. To be honest, I don't think they understand the uh, the mindset of a fat man.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Well, yeah, I mean. So let's address first there's two things here. First is did you lose all the water weight? All right, so let's just break that down scientifically Our body is like 60, 70% water and water. Actually, ironically, most of our water is held in our muscle cells. Okay, so the more muscle you have, yes, the more water weight you can gain and lose by doing different things, of manipulating your fluid balance, so things like salt and electrolytes and water and things like that. So here's what happens when you um, when you go on a crash diet and you do a severe calorie restriction, especially when you restrict out carbs. Okay, remember, carbs are stored in the body in the form of glycogen and mostly in the liver and the muscle cells is where you carry the most glycogen and glycogen also that attaches itself to water. When you drop out your carbs, your glycogen is going to come up. And again, I think, in this conversation, when I start talking about ozempic which I cannot make I make sure I don't forget to talk about.
Jonathan:Oh no, we're going to talk about that.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So when you drop out all of your carbs, your body goes Ooh, I need some glucose, I need energy, because it's your brain's preferred form of energy. So it's going to go to your muscle cells, it's going to take the glycogen out. With it comes the water and it's going to convert it to glucose. Your brain can use it, and so when it does that, you do lose a shit ton of water weight. And I will tell you that you can definitely lose 10 to 13 pounds of water weight over the course of about a week or so if you manipulate your fluid balance that way.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Okay, once you've lost about 10 to 13, up to maybe 20 pounds for somebody who has a tremendous amount of muscle, at that point you are no longer losing water. Now are you losing fat and muscle? Yes, the ratio of that kind of depends on what you're doing, what kind of food you're eating. If you want to prevent the muscle loss, you got to eat a lot of protein. But you know you you're the people telling you that you lost 100 pounds of water just simply don't know what the hell they're talking about.
Jonathan:I mean, I knew that and I'm not a doctor, but I knew, you know, I didn't lose 130 pounds of water.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:No, and here's the thing too. I mean, you have to also realize and this is something that you know when you talk about the predatory weight loss industry. I want people to understand that when you go on some sort of unique like prescriptive diet that someone gives you and you lose five or 10 pounds in that first week and they're like I lost 10 pounds, look at me, you're a genius, you're amazing. When people that I work with in the first week or two are like, guess what? I lost seven pounds in the first week. I'm like oh, why aren't you happy? I'm like because you're excited about poop and water, like that's all it is, and that doesn't make me a genius and it doesn't't make you Superman and you're not some sort of unicorn in this world.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You're probably going to put some of it back on as soon as you start eating certain foods. You've got to just be careful. Unfortunately, a lot of predatory coaches out there. They do put you on this super low-carb, calorie-restricted diet in the first week or so so that you drop out all your water. You think that they're a god because they're the first person to help you lose weight. You send them all kinds of money and it just goes downhill from there. So, yeah, the first 10 or so pounds are usually water, especially if you have a lot of weight to lose and a lot of mass on your body. But beyond that it's going to be fat and muscle.
Jonathan:Yeah, well, I mean, I will. You know, that actually brings us to an interesting, because I definitely want to talk about Zempik, manjar, all those fucking scans. But I do because you know I do catch a lot of shit about this and I know that I should have done some exercise, but to date, to today, I I have not been to the gym or lifted a weight or done anything. In fact, I'm going to tell you a shocking number. I just found this out because I was looking at my iPhone In 2023, which is when I went on this thing, when I started eating this way my average step count in 2023 was 931 steps a day.
Jonathan:Oh my God, I mean, that's like not even that's barely, but that was it. I mean, that was my average.
Jonathan:That means some days I did less but, I was so massive I couldn't really walk, but, um, I mean.
Jonathan:So I guess I guess my question is I mean, I look, I'm not. I'm never going to say I, maybe I would have lost more weight, maybe I wouldn't, or maybe I would have lost faster if I had exercised. But I mean, if you're, I mean, you know, for lack of a better term I was fucking like disgusting, you know, like I literally couldn't walk 100 yards, forget 100 yards, 100 feet. So I really had no choice and I'm not making excuses because I hate people making excuses, but that was just the reality of my situation. So, like, what do you say about you know, if at first you don't want to do the exercise, like I know I probably should be exercising now, but I don't want to and I know if I force myself to do it, I'm going to, it's going to piss me off and I'm not going to do it. So talk a little bit about you know, because I, you're a competitive bodybuilder, obviously you're into exercise and the gym and all I. I hate the gym more than anything in the fucking world.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:All right. So let's break this down a little bit about what the exercise can, the benefit of it, and then the absence thereof and kind of how we handle that. So of course I'm going to take the position of some. Exercise is always going to be better simply because of the health benefits that come from it.
Jonathan:So I agree, and I agree with you I just want to be clear. I'm not saying doing it without exercise is smart.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Of course so. So a couple of things that that you should know. I mean one thing is that weight loss truly is just a mechanism of calories in, calories out. So, as long as you know, calories out is the amount of calories that your body needs on a day-to-day basis to survive, and calories in is you know what you put into it, regardless of what kind of food. Okay, so if you want to lose weight on Doritos and Twinkies, do Twinkies even exist anymore?
Jonathan:I use it as an example. I don't know. I certainly hope so.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I don't know, I feel like they've gone away, but anyway, if you want to lose weight on Doritos and Twinkies, as long as you consume less calories of Doritos and Twinkies than your body needs on a day-to-day basis to survive, you will lose weight. Okay, the greater that deficit, or the difference between those two numbers, the faster you will lose weight. So the reason why exercise can be beneficial in this equation is, as you imagine, if you exercise, or just we'll call it, move. Okay, you don't have to be in a gym, you don't have to be on a treadmill, you don't have to lift weights. But just moving your body is going to burn more calories than if you don't move your body. Getting up, walking across the room to get the Twinkie is going to burn more calories than pushing a button and having somebody bring it to you, okay.
Jonathan:So your recommendation is doctors, don't keep the Twinkies next to the bed.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Never, never, put them on the put them upstairs and have to go upstairs to get them.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So as long as you're moving your body, you will burn more calories than if you are sitting around doing nothing.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So, first of all, I like to kind of encourage people just move a little bit more, even if it's just twitching your body, standing up and sitting down a few times, getting up and walking to the refrigerator instead of having somebody get your food, it's those kinds of things.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You're just going to make that gap between the amount of calories you need to survive and the amount of calories you put into your body greater just by moving more. With that being said, if the confidence level of being able to drop significant amounts of weight because of your current body condition is going to be inhibited by the requirement of getting up and moving, don't make that a requirement. You will make much bigger advances in the choices that you make with your food, and I'm going to explain this to you in an in an illustration. Okay, choosing to not eat one out of four donuts on a plate will save you about 350 calories out of that equation One. So if you have a plate of four donuts and you say I'm only going to eat three today instead of four. You just saved yourself 350 calories from that equation of the calories in calories out.
Jonathan:Yeah, I would never choose three over four, but anyway.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:If you make that choice, you saved yourself 350 calories. In order to burn the 350 calories in exercise or movement you would have to. I'm going to ask you this as a question, jonathan how much every day, walking at a good pace, not jogging and not just kind of trolling around smelling the flowers? But how many minutes of exercise do you think you need to do to burn off the calories from that one extra donut?
Jonathan:Well, it's funny you say that because I looked, because I want to do an episode about this, Because I looked, because I want to do an episode about this. So I looked at like, in order to burn off 3,500 calories, I guess, which is a pound, you would have to a guy, a 300-pound man, would have to walk like for three and a half hours at three miles an hour, or seven miles.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:It's a lot more than that, or whatever it is, but some ridiculous number you know to burn off a pound.
Jonathan:Yeah, some ridiculous number to burn off a pound.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah. So you'd have to do about two hours worth of pretty good walking to burn off the calories for one damn donut. So that's why I tell people listen, if I have the option of getting you to eat a little less versus arguing with you about moving a little bit more, I'm taking the eating less every single time. It's easier to convince people to just cut back on five bites of the food or one of the donuts or half of the piece of cake than try to get you to do two or three hours worth of exercise.
Jonathan:Right. And that's because, like I said, I looked into that, because I was like, well, because I always say in my mind I always thought you can't, at 411 pounds I couldn't do enough exercise to burn off a pound or 10 pounds or 20 pounds, because, a I couldn't do it physically but B it just seemed like a lot of work for not a lot of gain, I mean. So basically what you're saying is what you put into your body is much more important than the exercise. And again, not to diminish exercise in any way, because obviously I know it's important, and once I realized how few steps I was taking, I really made a conscious effort. Now I'm still not great, but I'm up. I average around 4,500 steps a day now. Great Because I just go out for a walk in the morning, which is a mile, which is nice because I can be on the phone.
Jonathan:But you once told me when I met you that time you said, hey, just park your car in the back. And I'm sure that's a common thing. But you said park your car in the back of the parking lot rather than parking in the front. I mean, I was so fat, I had a handicap sticker when I went to the. When I went to the supermarket I would ride in the fucking handicap cart, so I didn't have to walk around the supermarket.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:you know, I mean it was little things, those little things make a big, big difference. And again you know the math comes out to be it's about six hours of exercise a week to burn one pound. That's insane.
Jonathan:Six hours.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So you know what, if you can cut out food, it's much easier to do that. Let me also give you so the upside of physical movement, to which we haven't talked about. We keep on talking about walking and cardio and burning calories, but there is a benefit to resistance training that I want people to understand. That goes beyond burning calories, okay. And when you do resistance training and eat protein, okay. So we're going to couple those two things together. You're going to build a little bit of muscle tissue. What's going to happen is this when your body is in that calorie deficit, it's going to look for energy, it's going to burn body fat instead of the muscle tissue that you have, which keeps your metabolism stronger, because, remember, muscle tissue burns calories even when you're sleeping.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So if there's one thing that I have people that work with me that are, you know, 300, 400 pounds, they need to lose very significant amounts of weight, and we start with anything. I don't actually have them start on treadmills or walking, and it's very, very hard on the joints and it's exhausting, right. So what I have them do is sit in a chair and just take a couple of water bottles and do some hardcore bicep curls. Just squeeze those biceps, take those water bottles and press them up over your head. You do it while you're watching the TV and watching QVC. Like just just moving your body with a little bit of resistance is going to build up some muscle tissue which is going to make your body burn more calories at rest, and that is better than walking on a treadmill burn more calories at rest.
Jonathan:And that is better than walking on a treadmill. Yeah, I I that that's a great idea. I mean, and that's something I would do because, honestly, I mean, like when I, when I I went to the gym for a little, this is before I was at my maximum weight. But you know, I mean, like I said, I've been on every diet on the sun. I tried every trainer under the sun, you know, and he had me doing stuff in the pool and I would think of any excuse I could to cancel the appointment, you know, because I just didn't want to do it.
Jonathan:You know, like I hated doing it and that's where my head is in exercise. I know I need to exercise now and I know resistance training would be good for me and one day, like I said, you know, I always say when I'm ready to do that, I will do it. But I love the idea of just doing the curls with the water bottle. That's something I could do. Not have to commit the hour, you know, or whatever it is to go to the gym. And don't get me wrong, I like the sauna, I like to get a massage, I like all that shit, but that part of the gym I love. But you know the, the and and when I went to the gym, honestly I was like walking on the treadmill using the elliptical thinking.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I can't fucking wait till this is over. It's boring as shit. You know, people ask me a lot of times what's the best exercise to lose weight. I said you know there's a, there's an answer. Want to know what it is? Yeah, whatever kind you'll do, yeah, really.
Jonathan:Fair enough, I mean you'll do yeah. I mean that is, that is the truth, Like I have like yoga, do yoga.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You like Pilates, do Pilates. You like resistance training, weightlifting, do that. You like running, run. Whatever kind of exercise you will do, that's the best exercise, because it's the only kind that's going to fit into your schedule and you'll develop the discipline for it.
Jonathan:I mean that that makes perfect sense to me because, like I said, I hate the idea of going to the gym. I mean, you know, even even I played college football with debbie's husband and even when we I mean if we didn't have to sign into the weight room I would have never fucking gone, because I hated it, then I hated it.
Jonathan:Yeah, I wish I could love it. I really do, because you know, I, I, I just don't like it, but I love the idea of just those stupid things. And I did listen to you, by the way, I did start parking further away in the parking lot and the amazing thing was again, it's embarrassing to even say it, but I would, literally I'd go to Costco and I'd ride around in the handicap car or I'd go to the supermarket and ride around in the handicap car, partially because I didn't feel like walking but partially because, honestly, I don't know if I could have made it.
Jonathan:Yeah, it was exhausting, but now I walk through those places and I'm amazed at how many steps I take, you know, because now I track it, because that's, I guess, my quote unquote exercise, because I'm moving more but you're, and the benefit is I mean, here's another embarrassing thing. I'll admit like I couldn't get up out of a chair without doing like that, one, two, three, you know, like like getting a little momentum going. Now I can get up without even holding the arms.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, and you know, jonathan, I think that you know it's. This isn't about getting a six pack abs. This isn't about I mean, don't get me wrong, you know I like six pack abs, you like six pack abs, but that's not what this is about. This is about aging in a way that you don't need other people's help.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You know, this is about setting an example for young people to know that. You know our society has literally I mean listen, society has literally become weak, in that everything has to be easy, convenient, comfy, delicious, but our ability to suffer through anything like a plate of greens with a piece of chicken. It's amazing to me how many people are like you eat that. I'm like it's chicken and vegetables. It's just amazing to me. We really expect everything to taste like it comes off of a five star menu and you know 80% of our food should be about nourishing our future. We've forgotten that. You know the purpose of eating is to actually fuel our body, not always just because we want to feed our soul. 20 or 30% could be feeding our soul, but 80% 70% needs to be about fueling our future body.
Jonathan:And it's funny that you say that, because I say to people all the time when you start to make these small, smart choices, when you're really present, when you eat and you allow yourself to eat anything you want, you'll be amazed at how the things you want to eat change.
Jonathan:Yep, like, I wanted to eat donuts and pancakes and you know, and candy and junk food, and then, once I started to see the results, the things that I wanted to eat were things that I was, because I was thinking about it, were things that actually fueled my body, that I knew were better for my body.
Jonathan:You know, like I knew the grilled chicken was better, I would get, you know, I'd go to Costco and get a roasted chicken, whereas before I would definitely get some fried chicken, or, yeah, I mean, so it's like you said, it's. It's it's like when people say you really eat that I'm like, yeah, because that's what I need to get to my goal, which at the time, was to be fucking alive. Right, because I mean, you know, I was definitely going down the path of not being alive. So, you know, and it's incredible how you, you know, we've, like you said, people have trained themselves to be like oh, everything's got to be, you know, everything's got to taste delicious and beautiful. It's amazing how easily I train myself to like, know that certain foods are just really good for me, like I'd never, really liked yogurt, but now I like yogurt.
Jonathan:you know no sugar yogurt and you know Greek yogurt, whatever, and I don't know if that's the best one or whatever, but I try to eat yogurt because I know it's good for my gut. And I would never think that you know I thought jelly donuts were good for my gut.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Well, you know, listen, you know we haven't talked at all about kind of the you know how to. You know the discipline behind this, because you know you're obviously a year into your journey. You've been, you know, doing this for a while and there's a lot of people that right now would be sitting there going well, sure, of course you've, you now have the discipline of making better choices, but I'm sure at one point you didn't, and it was one choice and then two choices. And, if it's all right with you, I would love to share kind of like the psychological theory and perspective of how do you develop that discipline, because I think that that's another big question that I get from people all the time.
Jonathan:She's so fucking smart, she's a doctor Sure.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Share away. All right. So so you know, there there's, if you think about this, think about a habit that you have on a day-to-day basis, that you never really even have to think about, and the one that comes to mind for most people is either brushing their teeth or putting on their seat belts. You know, when you get into a car at this point now, listen, 30 years ago, when we were younger, we had to actually be told to put our seat belts on. But now it's been so long, and everybody's been doing it for so long, that when you get in a car you just put your seatbelts on. You don't have to say to logically rationalize why you're putting your seatbelts on, right, I mean, you don't sit there and go. Well, listen, there's a three-to-one chance that if I don't put my seatbelts on and I get fast thinking, okay, right.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Slow thinking is when we have to use logic and rationale to make a decision and the human brain is naturally wired to try to get to habits or fast thinking on the things that we do on a day-to-day basis, because otherwise it creates decision fatigue. We literally would go through our day with every single thing that we encounter. So should I take a step forward. Should I take a step up? No, no, no. Should I take a step right? Should I turn this way? Should I wear that shirt? Should I smile at that person? Should I like? We would get exhausted by it. So our brain is naturally wired to develop what we call habits. The things that we do on a day-to-day basis all the time become hardwired into us that we don't even think about them or decide to do them. They just happen. That's what discipline is.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Discipline is doing things without really thinking about it as to why we're doing it, or if we should or not. Right, that's where I'm at with my nutrition. As I sit down and I look at a menu and I don't go. What do I feel like having? No, my brain goes to protein, carbs, veggies, fats, because that's just the way my brain is wired at this point, after 35 years of doing this, okay, and your brain is getting there too. So somebody says how do I get to that point? Okay, it doesn't start with that.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So I'm a big believer that that whole like pardon the term, but fuck, discipline, fuck, fuck, fuck. Motivation. It's just discipline, you know, just do it. No, no, that's that's where more mature habit forming occurs. You know, once you've gotten it down to a science, you can get into the discipline of. It just happens Like you don't cheat on your wife why? Because you know that the consequences are there. You don't have to rationalize it when you see a good looking woman walk by, you just do it. So you have to start off with the motivation for it first. So first you have to start off with why am I doing this? And you're saying this again. You don't realize how brilliant you are because you're doing all these things. You just don't know what they're called in theories and science.
Jonathan:By the way, that's a doctor. That's a doctor telling me I'm brilliant.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I just want everybody to hear that I'm brilliant. The reason why you made these choices early on is because you wanted to live, because you knew that if you kept on making the choices that you were making, you were not going to survive. And you had a reason to survive. So each time you sat down in front of a plate of food, you subconsciously said I want to live, so choose the grilled chicken and the vegetables over the fried chicken and French fries. And over time, jonathan, that was a hidden process in the back of your mind, that now, without you, really Hello, yeah, we cut out there for a second.
Jonathan:I don't know what that was.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:For your audience. You have to start off with the why am I doing this and why does this matter? And every time you sit down to a plate of food, remind yourself of your why. That's what's going to, slowly, over time, build the discipline that you don't have to do that every time, but you have to start there.
Jonathan:And it's funny because I did a podcast a couple last, one or two ago or three ago, I don't remember but I said that discipline last one or two ago or three ago, I don't remember. But I I said that discipline, like I'm not disciplined, I like. For me, it was about my. I thought about my desire, which was to live. You know, obviously that's a very strong desire, but it was also to like to have a better quality of life and to be around to see, you know, my grandchildren, if I ever have them. It was, and I thought and that's part to me, that was really part of being present when I ate. It was like, is exactly what you just said, like I'll look at, I think about what I'm going to eat and then I'm going to say is this in line with my desires? Because I think desire, I think discipline is very hard to maintain and desire is kind of what drives us right.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Exactly, exactly, yeah, and so for me, like I said I have, I have extreme discipline as a competitive bodybuilder. There are periods of time in my life where I am literally every single meal and every single moment, thinking about my exercise and my diet and this and that. But you know what? It's no different. I'm sitting here when I sit down to. I don't sit there and just go well, all I can have is chicken and vegetables. No, I say, I want to look my best on stage and I know that that's going to take me eating that kind of food instead of that kind of food, or skipping a workout or not, and so it's all driven by motivation.
Jonathan:Yep, so you're calling it motivation, I'm calling desire, but we're basically talking about the same thing. I mean you know everybody that's listening to this there is definitely something in your life that you have desired, and even though you might not have been able to afford that little bigger house you want to get a new car, you want to meet that guy or girl you found a way to get it done, and I guess that's kind of what I did. Is I figured out a way to get it done, right?
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yep exactly.
Jonathan:You know. So, all right, so that's some. This has all been great stuff, but now we're running out of time. But I'm just having such a good time talking about this that I want to continue. I want to talk to you.
Jonathan:You know something, you know that drives me up the fucking wall Is Ozempic Manjaro Wagoagovi. You know, name, name the drug and, and I think, within, forget that you know it's breaking people financially because they're, you know, and forget the fact that they're saying they're clearly saying that it causes cancer. You know, and and but, and people are lining up to take this shit like it's out of stock everywhere. I, I mean, in my mind, those drugs are just another diet. They're the, the keto of tomorrow, or the, you know, the paleo, whatever. They're just a diet. You're not learning anything, and I'm definitely and I think they're good, you know. I mean, I don't think they're a bad thing, I them and I think you can.
Jonathan:You know, obviously, people that are listening this, there's probably some people who are on it, but you know, I don't, I don't think they're, they're sustainable financially or, you know, from a, from a health standpoint or really, and so they're not sustainable in any way. But I'm interested in, in in what you think of you know all those. Yeah, the new miracle drug where hey don't do, you don't do shit, just give yourself a shot once a week and you're going to be like you know, you're going to be a fitness model. Yeah, yeah.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So I mean, listen, I'm going to piss a few people off by saying so, just you know bear with me.
Jonathan:That's the whole point of my podcast, yeah, but.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:I'm just going to be brutally honest here. I do think that is some very short-term strategic usefulness for them, for certain populations of people, and I'll tell you why. So there are people that have no. There's a term in psychology called self-efficacy. It's another, better way of saying confidence. I mean it's a more broad term, but it's about having confidence okay, and it's believing that you've got the resources to do it, and things like that. So people who are morbidly obese, where death is the option okay, and they truly don't believe they have it in them to do it, in helping kickstart that weight loss process to avoid death and to give this person some sense of hope that they actually could do something about their weight, okay, okay. Also, I mean, we also let's talk about how they work, cause I do think that that's important for people to understand, because then they can understand how they can mimic that with behavior. Okay.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So the first thing that they do is they shut down the brain receptors that trigger appetite. The scary part is they really don't know how this happens which is a conversation for a whole, nother day but it shuts down the appetite center of your brain and it makes you not want food. Quite frankly, it makes you sometimes go a whole day without even eating, because it literally makes you not think about food at all. So what we can do is mimic that in our behavior. Well, let's talk about the other two things that it does and then we'll talk about how we mimic it. So the first thing is that it shuts down your appetite. Second thing that it does is it slows the digestive process. It slows the emptying of your stomach contents. Okay, there's a whole health concern about that, but we'll talk about that another time. But again. So the third thing that it does is it takes your stored glucose. It's a glucagon like peptide. It tells your body to go and get stored glucose and pull it out and use it for energy, even though you don't need to.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Okay, so how do we mimic that? That's, by the way, that's a natural thing. Your pancreas does glucagon. So how do we mimic that with behavior? Number one is suppressing appetite. We know that to suppress appetite, eat foods like proteins and high fiber carbs that keep your appetite down for long periods of time. Those overnight oats that you have, the proteins that you eat, the protein powder that I have, are going to keep your appetite suppressed long after you consume those foods. So if you want to suppress your own appetite, you just kick up your protein and your high fiber intake.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Okay, the other thing you could do is do time, restricted feeding, or the first thing I tell every single obese person that I talked to is you want to do one thing and you never have to talk to me ever again cut all of your food intake into about an eight hour window a day. That's the only thing you need to do and I guarantee you that you'll lose some weight. Okay, that is going to also suppress your appetite because it keeps your insulin levels super low. So appetite suppression checkbox. The next thing that it does is it slows the digestive process. It makes you feel fuller longer because it takes a long time to digest food. Well, you do that by eating fiber.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:So vegetables, oatmeal, sweet potatoes, things that slow digestion, that take your body a lot longer to digest the foods, is going to help push that off. It's the same exact thing that these damn drugs do. You just need to eat high fiber food. And then the third thing that it does is it encourages your body to go out and pull glucose out of storage from your fat cells and convert it into energy, even though you don't need to. How do you mimic that Move? Tell your body it does need more glucose by just doing all those fidgeting and standing up and sitting down and parking in the back of the parking lot, you're going to encourage your body to need more energy. Therefore, you will tell your body to take glucose out of storage and convert it into energy.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:You can mimic the action of these drugs through dietary and exercise behaviors or movement behaviors, and so that's why, when we put people on these drugs in our practice, we require them to do some dietary behavior coaching, because you have to be on these drugs for very short periods of time to give you the confidence that you can lose the weight, to kick start the process, to avoid death store. But at some point in the very, very near future. It's all on you, brother. It's all on you and you can do it. You just got to make these choices.
Jonathan:Yeah, and you know, and it's funny because, like I said, I do think they have a place and I think that the way you just described it is actually perfect, because I don't think, you know, people could, who knows? I mean, like I was reading something that says, you know, forget the cancer. I mean, like right, it causes cancer. It definitely causes cancer in lab rats. I mean, you know, when people found out that cigarettes cause cancer, millions of people quit and we talk about that all the time. Now we have people lining up to get this shit and there's a shortage of it.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Listen, everybody wants the fast fix right Everybody wants the pill, the drug, the shot or whatever like that. At the end of the day, you will lose weight taking these drugs. We don't know the long-term side effects of them and you will put the weight back on if you don't change anything about your behavior.
Jonathan:Right, it's just another diet If you take it and don't. You know, and don't do everything like I say to people all the time yeah, take the drug if you need to, but learn to eat while you're taking it. Learn to make these smart choices while you're taking the drug, because sooner or later you're going to go off them. I mean unless you're going to be on it for, you know, the next 25 years, okay, but you know, sooner or later you have to learn to eat. And if you don't learn to make those smart choices basically all the things that you just described, you know, if you don't do that, you're just going to put the weight back on it. You know, call it Ozempic or call it paleo. You know, call it Ozempic or call it keto.
Jonathan:You know, it's just another quick fix, another band-aid.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Listen, I'm the first person. When people call me and they say do your fat burners really work or does your protein powder really make people lose weight? I'm the first person that say absolutely not. Nope, they are not miracle pills and powders. I'm not a snake oil salesman. You know, if you're looking down at the ground, you pour some gasoline on it, it's not going to turn into a blaze. If there's a little spark on that ground and you throw some gasoline on it, it's going to turn into a nice big fire. So that's the analogy that I use. If you do the right things, if you eat a certain way, do a little extra movement and you throw some of these supplements, that's what they are. They are supplements. They supplement your effort. They supplement your choices. They supplement your effort. They supplement your choices. They will help you get results faster, but there is no magic pill or powder out there that creates long-term sustainable results. It's all on you and you have to make better choices.
Jonathan:Yeah, I mean that. That's why you I mean like you, you're, you're. Thank you, by the way, for your review of my book. I mean, you know, you said it's not for people with thin skin and it's not, you know, because I don't. You know, like I don't think big is beautiful, you know, I mean, and it's okay if you do, but you know, at a certain point big is just fucking unhealthy, you know, and I was beyond unhealthy, you know. So sometimes you need a kick in the ass and you know I like to be that kick in the ass because that's my personality and I did it and I'm tired of like people just whining and you know, telling me all these well, I can't because, you know, because it's my metabolism or I have this special. Fuck you, it's none of that, it's because of your choices.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Listen, you know what. We can't go back in time and undo things that were done for people that caused them to be where they are today. Maybe they had childhood trauma. Maybe they do have some genetic predisposition to being obese. Maybe their parents taught them that eating Twinkies three times a day was normal and healthy. You know what. You're an adult. There's better information out there. Now it's time to own up to it and do something about it.
Jonathan:Right, I mean well, I mean, I could probably talk to you for another six hours, but I'm sure you have things to do and you know people may tune out if we get past the four hour mark, but this has been a phenomenal conversation. We've been actually going for like over an hour, which is. You know, when we first spoke I said, hey, let's do like 30 minutes, 45 minutes, but I could do it again and actually I do want to do it again if you're up for it in the next, you know, whatever a few weeks or a few months or whenever you have free time. I mean, I really appreciate you taking the time to have this conversation. I really appreciate you actually giving the validation to me of what I did. You know actually has some science behind it, because to me it was just like I was just doing it because, honestly, I was desperate. I had to do it or I was going to fucking die.
Dr. Debbie Rosen:Yeah, I applaud you because you accomplished with what 99.9% of the people out there say they can't do and eventually don't. So I mean a lot of credit.
Jonathan:Well, thank you, I appreciate that. So with that I'm going to say I'm going to sign off, but I do want to say that you should definitely check out Travidity Labs. They have great stuff. I've used it. I mean, I used it late in my journey. I'm going to be using it again because it's great. So definitely check her out. Actually, I think they can probably reach out to you directly too, debbie, right, of course, through your website. Yeah, so thank you very much, debbie Rosen, for being here.
Jonathan:I really appreciate it and I guess I'm going to sign off and say shut up and choose. Wow, that was a lot of fun having somebody else on the podcast. I'm definitely going to have Debbie back on because I have about 100 other things I'd love to discuss with her and get her take on. But now it's time for the shameless self promotion part where I say hey, buy my book on Amazon. It's both in paperback and in an ebook. I'm working on the audio book. Who knows if I'll ever finish it, but I am working on it. If you like my podcast, please tell your friends and I hope to see you here next week. Again, shut up and choose.
Announcer:You've been listening to Shut Up and Choose. Jonathan's passion is to share his journey of shedding 130 pounds in less than a year without any of the usual gimmicks no diets, no pills. And we'll let you in on a little secret no fucking gym. And guess what? You can do it too. We hope you enjoyed the show. We had a fucking blast. If you did, make sure to like, rate and review. We'll be back soon, but in the meantime, find Jonathan on Instagram at JonathanWrestlerBocaRaton. Until next time, shut up and choose.